We want to send a HUGE thank you to listener, Megan Ondricek, for volunteering to help us catch up and create transcripts for our past episodes (starting with episode 9 below) and provide this important resource to our community! Amanda: Welcome to episode ten of the Librarian’s Guide to Teaching podcast! I’m Amanda. Jessica: And I’m Jessica. Amanda: And on today's episode, we are talking to the authors of the new book, “How to Thrive as a Library Professional,” Susanne Markgren and Linda Miles. Their book covers topics that range from determining a career vision and cultivating relationships to using narrative to make connections and employing mindfulness, compassion, and self forgiveness. This book will help librarians at all stages of their careers to take charge and forge their own way in the vast and shifting landscapes of information science. A little bit about our guests: Susanne is the Assistant Director of the Library for Technical Services at Manhattan College, in Riverdale, NY. She has worked in libraries for more than twenty years, and has written articles, book reviews, essays, and chapters for a variety of publications. She is the co-author of two books: “Career Q&A: A Librarian’s Real-Life, Practical Guide to Managing a Successful Career,” and “How to Thrive as a Library Professional: Achieving Satisfaction and Success.” She received her MLIS from the University of Texas at Austin, and her MFA in creative writing from Manhattanville College. Linda Miles is the Assistant Professor, Open Educational Resources Librarian, and Liaison Librarian to the faculty of Early Childhood Education and the Visual and Performing Arts at Hostos Community College – City University of New York. Linda has been very active in the library community in NYC for some time, and currently serves as the co-chair of the ACRL/NY chapter’s New Librarians’ Discussion group and a co-convener for the Metropolitan New York Library Council’s Reference and Instruction Meetup. She researches, writes, and presents about students’ reading- and college-readiness, game design for media literacy instruction, and librarians’ career development. Jessica: So welcome to you both! Thank you so much for coming to talk to us today. Linda: Well thank you for having us! Susanne: Thank you so much for having us. This is so fun! Jessica: [chuckles] Well as soon as we saw the title and the description of the book we knew we wanted to have you on to talk about the book and how it can be a part of reflecting on our careers and the work that we do. So, the name of the book starts with how to thrive so we wanted to ask you, What does thriving mean to both of you? Linda: Well, it's a great question. I think that thriving is really a combination of two things: success and satisfaction. It’s really both about accomplishing good work and also feeling good about it. Um, it feeds on itself too, it adds up, it's cumulative. For success, sort of, success can be almost anything, and it's different for different people. It's whatever you need it to be at a given moment, and it certainly changes over time, even for an individual, and it changes with context. In the book our focus is really on this sort of steady and deliberate and creative approach to building a career over time. So success in that sense is kind of a journey, there's a, there's a, time dimension to it. You start from establishing a vision of where you're headed, and then as you progress in your career you recognize milestones that you reach along the way. And I think everyone interprets success differently and celebrates it differently as well. And it's also important to understand that success is never something you achieve and then that's it. It's never one and done, and it requires some maintenance, some care along the way. Susanne: Yeah, absolutely. And, in full disclosure, the word “thrive” was kind of, um, picked for us from our publisher and our editor, which often happens when you write a book. But we, we, we’ve grown to kind of love it so, you know, it's kind of a catch-word, a keyword, but also just to talk about the word, you know, “satisfaction” also. And the title, similar to success, it's, it's really defined individually. And it's an affective experience. And, you know, speaking from our own personal experiences, it comes from a combination of feelings, really. So feelings, um, like what we do is helping in some way, which is really important. Whether it's helping the patron, the organization, the world, you know, just feeling connected with colleagues, feeling competent and supported by our own organizations and optimistic about what's coming next is kind of a big thing. And also feeling excitement at the next challenge, rather than feeling stressed or fearful or overwhelmed, which is often the case. Linda: I was just gonna say so, it does, it adds that layer of the affective, the way you feel about your career to the actual nuts and bolts of getting the work done. Jessica: Right, yeah, exactly. I think that was something that I never reflected on when I started in my career. I think I always just had that idea of the very external-based idea of success, you know, write papers, or present at conferences, get promotions, but did I even really want those things? I don't think I ever reflected on that, and it took me, you know, into my 30s to really figure out what success looked like and that it was okay for it to change. So I think that the, those are very important points, especially for someone who's new joining the field or new to their career so I think that's a great way to define that. Susanne: Yeah, I think it's very true and I've, you know, I've held many different types of jobs throughout my long career, and it's different, wherever you go and you have to define that yourself, and you have to grow from the next, you know, job to the next job, and it's it's great, you know, I think that's, that's the whole point like we, we learn and we grow and our success and satisfaction changes depending on what we do and what we want to do, and it has to be internal I mean it's external obviously, as well, but it has to be also internal. Amanda: Yeah definitely, I can definitely agree with that. Um, you know I've been at one place for pretty much all of my library career - it's been over 10 years - and I've held different positions in this, you know, in this college, at Berkeley. But the success definitely changed as my roles evolved. And I think success internally has gotten a lot harder for me as my responsibility and my roles have increased and changed and broadened so it's definitely, success is definitely different for me now, for sure, than when I first started. [7:44] Amanda: So another question we have for you guys is, you know, the library world is small, in ways. So that can you know be a positive and a negative for building relationships. Based on your research, what are some tips you recommend for librarians at any stage, to develop, you know, those networking skills within and outside their job environments. Susanne: Okay, this is great, like, this is huge for us so we're all about building relationships and networking and it’s how Linda and I met, but this is like so crucial and important to our career successes and satisfaction so yeah we can talk about some of the research in the chapter that we did, but also just our personal experience of all, you know, along the way doing this building different relationships. But personally, like the people that I've met throughout, you know, from library school through my various jobs to where I am now have been absolutely critical in my entire journey, and that brought me to where I am and, you know, I will say that, I will scream that, you know, at the top of the mountain. And I'm still in contact with so many of these people, and they're so important in my life right now, people that I've known for 20 plus years, you know, past library school classmates, past colleagues, past directors, past mentors, and I still call them, you know, my mentor, I'm still so, um, you know, ingratiated to them it's been fantastic. And so, I can't stress that enough and they've all had an impact so big on my career and I, and I…. That's why I'm so invested in giving back, and I hope that I've impacted other people's careers, and I'm very passionate about mentoring new librarians and people, you know, you know, getting into the field, and I've been a part of the ACRL New York mentoring program I helped to develop that and it's been going strong for about almost 10 years now and I've been the coordinator of that program and it's been fantastic so I, I, really can't stress that enough. Linda: Yeah I would say that mentoring is a really important relationship for me too. Um, we were talking a little bit about, sort of, the emotional satisfaction you get from your work and those relationships are part of that satisfaction and part of why we do what we do. And you're right, you know, some people do find it difficult to even figure out how to do the networking, especially if they're new, in the field. And I think you mentioned, you could be in a very small library or a small organization or maybe you don't have a very supportive network within your organization. So, we would often encourage people to go outside of their institution to get the support that they need. As Suzanne mentioned there are mentoring programs like the one at ACRL New York; joining local associations can be really big. Volunteering for committees, um, really finding people who do the same kind of work you do in a different, in a different context, in a different library, anyone I've ever reached out to to try to make a connection has responded positively and some of those relationships are still going strong as well. [11:20] Susanne: So, in the book, um, was some of the research that we found we talked about different types of relationships. Some of these are, as Linda and I just talked about, uh, mentoring, uh, mentor-mentee relationship but other types of relationships that they talked about are sponsor, friend, colleague, supervisor, and how these different roles are, you know, can be very beneficial at different stages of one's career, and then they can also overlap like it can be, You know, one or two at the same time with different people, um, and they can also be very complex so it's it's good to, kind of, think about the different relationships you have with the different, you know, the people that you work with, and how you can grow these relationships or if they are beneficial to you or if they're not, because sometimes we can be in positions that it's, it's not a healthy relationship with certain colleagues and that's just, you know, we've probably all been in positions like that before, and you just need to realize that and then, you know, you need to maybe step outward and find someone else that you can have a healthy relationship with that will fill that role. So we talk about that, a little bit, in the chapter and we also talk about collaborators and accountability partners, and that's - kind of, defines Linda and I’s relationship very well. [All chuckle] We collaborate on so much and we have, you know, over the years on, you know, the book and presentations and programming, and... Linda: We definitely hold each other accountable! Susanne: ...and we hold each other accountable. So I mean, the biggest tip is just try to surround yourself with as many good people that you can to fill these roles, who can help you, you know, with people that can help you, push you to the next level to help you succeed. [13:21] Amanda: Something that I, I've been, I've been hearing that you're not really saying, but I think, you know, it's worth to point out is that, you know, these types of relationships take maintenance, you have to continue to develop them. And, you know, if you want to stay in touch with people from library school you have to make that effort to keep that relationship alive because it's very easy to like, I don't, I don't have a professional relationship with anybody in library school. But since I started my career, I've maintained the relationships that I've gotten professionally, but not through library school but I think it's so true that the maintenance part of it, it's work, you know you need to sometimes be the one that reaches out and follows up in order to help a relationship grow. Linda: You’re - that’s exactly right and, what can be frustrating for some people is that they'll see that it doesn't seem quite as effortful for when others are doing it so some people get discouraged because they feel like they're the only ones who find it difficult, but it really is a task on everybody's to-do list, you know, whether they're explicit about it or not, whether they put in place systems to know, “Oh I need to...I know I need to reach out to so and so every six weeks so let me put that on my calendar.” I mean there are things you can do to hold yourself accountable as well. But you're absolutely right. It takes effort to maintain. Susanne: Yeah, I agree, it does and you just have to put yourself out there and just do it, just reach out to people, and I'll get together maybe once a year with an old, like, old, old, old director of mine who I consider a mentor. And she's like, “Let's get together for lunch,” and we’ve maintained that, so yeah. Jessica: And I think if we all talk about it as a community and realize that this is how these professional relationships work it makes people more confident to feel like, “okay I can reach out now that it's - even though it's been a year,” um, maybe give people a little confidence to reach out, because we all understand that that's just how this maintenance process works. Susanne: Absolutely, yeah. And we're all busy individuals and, you know that, so just, yeah, to have that kind of awareness and be like, “You know what, whenever you need, just reach out and we'll get together.” Jessica: Yeah, exactly. Great. So, one of your other chapters is on um, habits. So Amanda and I have always been big fans of being self reflective on our habits and doing things in ways that are most productive to achieve our goals. So what are some of the habit pitfalls that people may fall into when trying to develop new habits? Susanne: Great question! This is...and, and in all honesty this is probably one of the hardest chapters to, to really write, and to think about, and to reflect on, because habits are hard. And Linda and I agree, like it's, it's, it's really, there are a lot of pitfalls. So, you know we tried to cram a lot into this chapter of different ideas for different people because everyone has different, different ways to deal with this. So, um, and, and habits can change and we know that as people's jobs change and routines change, but it's, it's kind of just paying attention to the different habits that we have currently. And then trying to think about, um, are these healthy habits like right now in my, in my current life or my current work environment, and can I develop better ones that are maybe going to work better for me, and better for my routine right now. So, it is…it's tricky, we totally get that. But that's, I mean, that's kind of the point of reflection and reflection is like a, you know, we've said this before, reflection is as our final chapter in the book but it really covers all of the chapters, we've talked about reflecting on all of the things, and all the chapters, and it's just reflection habits work really well together because we have to kind of reflect on what our current habits are and if they're working for us, and try to develop new ones, and develop good routines that are going to help us be successful. [17:50] Linda: Yeah. So on the one hand one of the reasons that you want to develop habits, right, is to make certain things a little bit automatic, so that you don't have to think about them so much and you can divert that energy to other things that may be more important or that you may have to be more present for. But, pausing for the reflection, kind of is, um, it’s a little ironic, right? You want to not pay attention to these things, but now we're saying, “Wait, hit the pause button, let's pay attention to this for a minute and see what's really happening.” And, and how our habits, and our work routines are operating. And then there's another potential pitfall that in my mind is a little bit the opposite of that, and that’s that some people, myself included, tend to fetishize new techniques that come out for organization or time management. And I kind of get into this endless cycle of trying out new approaches. I like to call it the “New Year's Eve resolutions syndrome” or something. Every semester I need to try out some new thing, a new way to stay organized and on top of things. One semester it was, you know, that “getting things done” GTD system from David Allen. One semester it was bullet journaling. And then when it kicks in and it takes some effort to learn that new system and maintain it, then, you know, it just becomes too much, and my resolve just sort of fades away. So this is a problem that I recognize in myself and I think it's a big pitfall when it comes to these um, productivity habits. And I haven't completely solved the problem, I'm just really attracted to new ways of thinking about becoming organized, but I think there's two concepts that helped me manage this a little bit. I stopped beating myself up when I quote-unquote, “fail” in this way, because that just paralyzes me further, and I give myself permission to modify whichever model I’m trying in the current semester in order to customize it to my needs and I think recognizing the fact that these out-of-the-box systems that worked for so-and-so or so-and-so aren't necessarily gonna work for me, without that customization. And again, taking a reflective approach helps me, sort of, understand myself - how I work best and what might work best for me. And, um, with habits as with - I don't know, I would say maybe with a lot of things - adaptability and flexibility are really important. So if the thing that I say I'm going to do on New Year’s Eve I end up not wanting to do anymore after January 15, I can grow and I can change and I can try something else. There's a little bit in our, in this chapter in the book about Carol Dweck’s concepts of the growth mindset versus the fixed mindset. And anything you can do to sort of, avoid a defeatist attitude and develop some optimism about your ability to manage your routine at work, I think that can all be very constructive. Jessica: Yeah definitely. I think it’s, it’s interesting like you almost have to make a habit out of reflecting, because you can't just reflect once, and then be done with it, because, as you said you - you're starting these new things but you have to reflect at some point is it working? So, a habit in itself is reflection and continuous reflection, it's not a one and done kind of thing. Linda: Yeah, right. Amanda: Yeah, yeah. I'm definitely with you, Linda. I definitely like to try new models and constantly downloading productivity apps and trying to figure out new ways and um, you know, I keep going back to, just like an online Google task list. And that's it. And I, no matter what I try, I keep finding myself going back to the same thing, so I stick it out now for a while to see, um and I do think it is working for me, but I have to force myself to not want to jump to a brand new one right away, um, or so quickly. Linda: Yeah. My mom, I always say my mom can’t pass a bookstore without going in. I can't pass by a new, you know, productivity idea without trying it. Amanda: So uh, another thing that seems to be everywhere, right now besides habits, is mindfulness, it's a big topic that's being discussed. So how does your chapter on mindfulness and self compassion suggest that librarians tackle this topic? Susanne: Great question, um, yes, so yeah, definitely mindfulness is, has been, extremely popular lately, and, and it's something that you know we've all heard about that probably something that we don't all actually practice or relate to our professional lives. But we've definitely, you know, that it can, you know, practicing mindfulness and self compassion at work can help us be more aware of how we relate to others. How we react and respond to certain situations and, ultimately, kind of how we judge ourselves. And so in, in the chapter on mindfulness, we do offer several tips for how to implement it, which you know stems from like the very personal, of, like doing mindful meditation breathing exercises, and then to the more broader, offering mindfulness programming or classes to your library, which many different types of libraries are doing. And then reflecting on our own positive qualities and stuff like keeping a gratitude journal. These are some of the ideas or exercises that we have in the chapter on mindfulness. Linda: Yeah it’s easy, sometimes, to let your workload get the best of you, you know, you say yes to too many things, and you end up over-scheduled and really consumed by the things you're trying to get done, and by the things you’re not getting done, and you can, it can really affect your perspective and your, your frame of mind, so that you might feel less engaged, or you might feel a sense of complacency, or even burnout. And I think again deliberately taking some steps to focus in the moment and increase confidence, and um, take better care of yourself, helps us better relate to our emotions and it also helps us deal, I think, more productively with both success and failure, in a sense. [25:03] Amanda: I definitely agree with that, um, when we track our instruction at Berkeley, I have a, we have a form that we use, and on the form I ask, we ask librarians to say how did it go? And it's a sliding scale from one to 10, and sometimes, you know, librarians are like, “Ugh why do I have to do this every single time?” But at the end of the year at the annual review process, they can go back and see how they felt! You know, because in my experience sometimes those really bad opportunities stick out in their head but when they look at the bigger picture, it's, it's a small percentage of the other successful, you know, experiences that they had. So, you know, it's just one little way for them to kind of, like you said keep the successes and failures in perspective. Linda: Yeah. Jessica: Alright so, thank you guys so much for answering those questions about the book! Uh, we're going to move into our weekly segment called triumph and fail so we're gonna share, um, you can share one or the other - a triumph or a fail - or you can share both, if you have them. Amanda, do you want to start? Amanda: Sure, so, I was invited into a class last minute, it was a management class, and I wanted to do something interactive like the presentation was already put together and, but I wanted to do something a little more engaging with the students, and I didn't have a lot of time like literally, I had like two hours in the morning to put it together, and I ended up just like, you know, kicking it old school with like a paper form no tech at all. And they did group work, and it was so successful, they just, they were talking to each other, and they were filling it out like they were excited about filling it out on paper and they were just, they were writing a lot, like I couldn’t believe how much they were writing, I was so excited. And it really, it kind of set the tone for the rest of the class because they had them do it right at the beginning before it even started. And it really just felt so good, to get them that engaged over something so simple. Jessica: Right, exactly. That does feel nice! [chuckles] Great so, Linda, Susanne, do you guys want to go? Linda: Sure, I um, I would call this a win, or is that what we're saying? Win, or, or failure? So I, yesterday I taught, I had three library workshops back-to-back for the same professor, and it’s um, a public speaking course, and I had worked with her before there's - she has a worksheet that she has the students do and it’s called the library exercise and it takes them through a few steps and um…. So I had been doing it, and I did it this way, this time too, I've been doing the exploration of how to brainstorm a topic and think about a topic and manage a topic, and then going into this little unit on strategies for searching and using interfaces, first focusing on the Gale Virtual Reference Library and then focusing on our one-search discovery layer, and I've done it in that that sequence ever since I started teaching this course to her and I kind of had an epiphany yesterday, in the middle of one of those classes, that I really needed to do the Gale Virtual Reference Library first, where they're getting background information, then have them brainstorm topics, and then take that more specific information into using the discovery layer. So I can't say that I've implemented it yet, but I consider it a win because it's what I'm going to implement next time, next semester when I work with the same professor. Jessica: Epiphanies count as wins, that works. Susanne: Yeah, great. I think I have a fail and a win. I'll try to, try to be quick and also I'm not an instruction librarian so, sorry guys, but um, this is, I'm tech services. Um, but I was, um, we recently acquired O’Reilly for Higher Education, which was the old Safari thing, and I needed to put all the MARC records into the catalog. And I - it’s 54,000 MARC records - and I needed to...and I categorized some of them wrong. They were all, I put them all in as ebooks, which wasn’t correct because some are, 8800 of them were uh, videos. So I had this huge file in MarcEdit and I was trying to wrap my head around how to parse out the film, versus the ebook and, and then I called in my colleague who was, who is very smart, and the two of us, as we usually do, figure it out together. And we played around with um, find and replace, and if/then statements, and, and, and it worked. So I removed the old file and put in the new file, and all is good. Jessica: Woo hoo! Susanne: And I'm not a cataloger I'm a tech services person but I'm not...so I was like, “Yay!” success. Jessica: (chuckling) That's awesome. So it was a fail that you turned into a win? Susanne: Absolutely. Jessica: That works. [All chuckling] Jessica: So mine's kind of about instruction, it’s about faculty outreach. So I've only been at Pace for four and a half months or so. So I'm trying to do some outreach to some of the departments that we don't do as much instruction for, and that I haven't made connections with yet so, I've been doing that over the past two weeks and I've had a lot more bites than I was expecting and I have my first meeting with the Environmental Services department tomorrow. So very excited, get to talk about [inaudible] ourselves in the department. Amanda: Well that’s great! Linda: That’s awesome. Susanne: Amazing. Jessica: Alright, so thank you guys for both talking to us about the book and for sharing your triumphs and fails. Amanda: Yes thank you so much. Susanne and Linda: Thank you for having us! Jessica: We’ll definitely include in the show notes where people can get the book. Linda: This was really fun. Susanne: Yeah, thanks you guys. Jessica: Thank you! Jessica: Here’s where you can find the podcast! You can find the podcast on Twitter at: @Librarian_Guide. You can find me, Jessica, at @LibraryGeek611. You can find Amanda at @HistoryBuff820. And send us an email at [email protected]. Be sure to rate and subscribe wherever you listen! And send us an email or a tweet to share your questions, ideas for potential discussions, or your triumphs and fails in the classroom. Summary keywords: library | habits | success | career | book | relationships | mindfulness | routines | reflect | mentoring |
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About the podcast:The LGT podcast is hosted by two instruction librarians interested in sharing their experiences teaching information literacy, discussing current trends, and having meaningful conversations about librarianship. Archives
May 2021
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